Jill Wine-Banks is an MSNBC legal analyst, appearing regularly on the network’s primetime and daytime shows. She began her career as an organized crime prosecutor at the U.S. Department of Justice, which led to her selection as one of three assistant Watergate special prosecutors in the obstruction of justice trial against President Nixon's top aides. She has also served as general counsel of the U.S. Army, solicitor general and deputy attorney general of the state of Illinois, and executive vice president and chief operating officer of the American Bar Association. In each case, she was the first woman to hold the position.Her new book is The Watergate Girl: My Fight for Truth and Justice Against a Criminal President.
From the transcript of Wine-Banks's Fresh Air interview with Dave Davies:
DAVE DAVIES: Well, Jill Wine-Banks, welcome to FRESH AIR. Let's talk about your experience in the Watergate investigation. You were hired at the age of 30 for the special prosecutor's office. You are an attorney with some experience. You'd done criminal prosecutions for the Justice Department. You were, I guess, the only woman trial lawyer on the team there. How were you regarded by all of these other men - the attorneys, the agents, others?--Marshal Zeringue
JILL WINE-BANKS: Well, it depends on what part of my career you're talking about. When I first started at the Department of Justice, again, I was the only woman trial lawyer. And no one really knew how to deal with me because they weren't sure whether to call me a woman lawyer, which is something I've always objected to. I think that distinguishes me in a way that's unfair from any other lawyer. I was a trial lawyer, not a woman lawyer. And so I've always corrected people on that particular thing.
I really ended up being very much accepted in the Department of Justice organized crime section, but it took me over a year to get my first trial, and that was because I was not even aware - I had no role models and no one to look to. And it took me a while to realize that the men I started with were starting to try cases. We all start doing appeals, but they had moved on to trials, and I hadn't. And so I had to confront my boss and say, how come? And he said, well, because you're a girl, and you'd be much more vulnerable in a courtroom. In appeals, you're just with lawyers. But in the courtroom, you'd be with Mafia members. And I simply said, well, what didn't you notice about me when you hired me as a trial lawyer? And that's how I got my first trial.
When I got to Watergate, I had only a few years of experience.
DAVIES: But they accepted you once you were on the team?
WINE-BANKS: Oh, at Watergate, I never felt unaccepted. There were a number of episodes where you would have to say gender played a role. Judge Sirica made several, I would have to say, sexist comments. One was during my questioning of Rose Mary Woods when he said, now, ladies, we have enough problems in this courtroom without two women arguing. And that was while I was cross-examining her, not arguing with her. He also said during my cross-examination of one of the defendants, Robert Mardian, Mr. Mardian, don't you know you can never win an argument with a lady?
And part of the trial strategy...[read on]